- Keeping the Zero Tolerance DUI Law age limit at 21, and/or for the first X number of years of having a license. (Puerto Rico, many Canadian provinces, Germany, and many other countries currently do so despite a drinking age of 18 or even lower.)
- Strictly enforcing the new, lowered drinking age of 18, especially against vendors and those who otherwise furnish alcohol to people under 18.
- Keeping the purchase age at 19, 20, or 21 for kegs, cases, handles of liquor, and other large quantities, and/or limiting the quantities and number of transactions per day for people aged 18-20.
- Having shorter trading hours for people under 21.
- Lowering the drinking or purchase age to 18 for beer and/or wine, but keeping it 20 or 21 for hard liquor.
- Lowering the general drinking age to 18, and the and purchase age to 18 for on-premise sales (bars and restaurants), but keeping the purchase age at 21 (or 20 or 19 perhaps) for off-premise sales from stores. Or allowing off-premise sales to 18 year olds only if one is with someone over the higher age.
- Lowering the general drinking or purchase age to 19 or 20, but waiting longer to lower it all the way to 18.
- Having exceptions to the any of the higher drinking or purchase ages for those with a college or military ID.
- For on-premise sales, not accepting out of state IDs from people under a neighboring state's drinking age if within X number of miles from the border.
- Requiring a "drinking license" for 18-20 year olds similar to that advocated by Choose Responsibility.
Showing posts with label zerotolerance. Show all posts
Showing posts with label zerotolerance. Show all posts
Friday, April 4, 2025
The Pitfalls Of "Ersatz 21"
We at Twenty-One Debunked have always supported fully lowering the drinking age to 18, across the board, full stop. Such advocacy has been primarily on deontological or rights-based rather than utilitarian grounds, though there is clearly some of the latter as well. And while we have grudgingly advocated some short-term compromises in our proposal and in several posts for the sake of moving the Overton window in our favor just to get the lower drinking age passed at all, we have done so with the very greatest reluctance. Because if we are not careful, such compromises can actually work against us, and thus become an "own goal" in both senses of the term. Especially if we start actually believing too hard in such "safeguards".
We recently came up with a name for this phenomenon: "Ersatz 21". Because at base, each and every one of the following compromises and concessions to the other side (some we support for the short term, some we don't) can be considered as a way to appease the other side and retain at least some of the alleged (and that is the appropriate word!) public health and safety "benefits" of the 21 drinking age, as at least a partial substitute for it. For example:
All but the very last item on this list we would support to one degree or another for the short term to get the drinking age lowered, with as few such items as possible to get it passed, and a sunset clause for most of them. We do NOT support Choose Responsibility's proposal, as it is way too quixotic and milquetoast, and as we have seen, utterly failed to win over the other side. And of course, anything stricter than this list we will vehemently oppose, as that would defeat the purpose of lowering the drinking age to 18.
(Note that we absolutely DO fully support general things like raising the alcohol taxes, cracking down harder on drunk driving, and having tougher DUI laws in general, but those are not on the above list of "Ersatz 21" policies, as none of those things are age-specific. Those things will of course take some of the wind out of the sails of the pro-21 side.)
And certainly, we should NEVER start out with a compromised position! Validating the other side in ANY way, as we have seen, only works against us.
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Wednesday, July 28, 2010
Zero Tolerance Laws in Canada
On August 1, 2010, Ontario will join a few other Canadian provinces (not to mention the USA) in implementing zero-tolerance laws for drinking and driving. In Ontario's case, the age limit will be 22, and the BAC limit will be 0.00%. It is a traffic infraction rather than a criminal offense. The penalty will be an automatic 24-hour roadside suspension of one's license, plus a fine of up to $500 and a suspension of up to 30 days upon conviction. For those over 22, the limit will remain 0.05 for a traffic infraction and 0.08 for a criminal offence of DUI.
Ontario has, and will retain, a drinking age of 19. In Canada, the drinking age is 18 or 19 depending on the province. Thus in Ontario, one can drive at 16, drink at 19, but will not be allowed to mix the two until 22 or until one has had a license for at least two years, whichever is longer.
We at Twenty-One Debunked, who unequivocally abhor drunk driving but believe the drinking age should be 18 and not a day later, have mixed feelings about the new law. On the positive side, though it may or may not actually save lives, it does send a strong message that drinking and driving simply do not mix. It provides a reason (or even an excuse) for young drivers to refuse a drink from their buddies at a bar or party without looking or feeling awkward. It also helps to appease the fears among older adults about young people drinking and driving, and can help pre-empt more extreme measures, such as raising the drinking age. On the negative side, it still remains a form of age discrimination, regardless of how well-intentioned it is, and the unrealistically low BAC limit provides no safeguards against false positives. There is a significant margin of error of +/-0.01-0.02 in BAC readings, meaning that it is theoretically possible for someone who had nothing at all to drink can test positive and lose his or her license for up to a month.
Thus, we recommend keeping the law, but raising the BAC limit to 0.02, or at least automatically subtracting 0.01 or 0.02 from any breathalyzer reading if they still wish to retain the absolute zero limit. Also, we think all fairly novice drivers (less than 5 years of licensed driving experience) should be held to the same standard regardless of age, as is currently done in the Netherlands with a BAC of 0.02. In addition, we recommend that if there must be age limits, the drinking age should be lowered to 18, and the zero tolerance age should be 21. Finally, we must never lose sight of the fact that (in the USA) the average BAC in fatal crashes is 0.16 overall and 0.14 for drivers under 21. We need to see the forest for the trees, and focus enforcement where it matters most. For those with high BACs, regardless of age, judges need to throw the book at them before they ever kill someone.
Ontario has, and will retain, a drinking age of 19. In Canada, the drinking age is 18 or 19 depending on the province. Thus in Ontario, one can drive at 16, drink at 19, but will not be allowed to mix the two until 22 or until one has had a license for at least two years, whichever is longer.
We at Twenty-One Debunked, who unequivocally abhor drunk driving but believe the drinking age should be 18 and not a day later, have mixed feelings about the new law. On the positive side, though it may or may not actually save lives, it does send a strong message that drinking and driving simply do not mix. It provides a reason (or even an excuse) for young drivers to refuse a drink from their buddies at a bar or party without looking or feeling awkward. It also helps to appease the fears among older adults about young people drinking and driving, and can help pre-empt more extreme measures, such as raising the drinking age. On the negative side, it still remains a form of age discrimination, regardless of how well-intentioned it is, and the unrealistically low BAC limit provides no safeguards against false positives. There is a significant margin of error of +/-0.01-0.02 in BAC readings, meaning that it is theoretically possible for someone who had nothing at all to drink can test positive and lose his or her license for up to a month.
Thus, we recommend keeping the law, but raising the BAC limit to 0.02, or at least automatically subtracting 0.01 or 0.02 from any breathalyzer reading if they still wish to retain the absolute zero limit. Also, we think all fairly novice drivers (less than 5 years of licensed driving experience) should be held to the same standard regardless of age, as is currently done in the Netherlands with a BAC of 0.02. In addition, we recommend that if there must be age limits, the drinking age should be lowered to 18, and the zero tolerance age should be 21. Finally, we must never lose sight of the fact that (in the USA) the average BAC in fatal crashes is 0.16 overall and 0.14 for drivers under 21. We need to see the forest for the trees, and focus enforcement where it matters most. For those with high BACs, regardless of age, judges need to throw the book at them before they ever kill someone.
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