Of course, the neo-temperance crowd as well as the ageists (is there really any other kind these days?) would counter that this only proves that Americans can't handle their alcohol, so therefore lowering the drinking age to 18 would be even worse. But what they are tacitly admitting by saying this specious argument is that Americans are inferior to Europeans--do they really want to concede that? Didn't think so. And by that same logic, they might as well call for bringing back Prohibition for all ages, as that would be the ultimate logical conclusion of that utterly patronizing and paternalistic argument.
Besides, we know now that, while all policy measures have their hard limits, the most time-tested, efficient, effective, and cost-effective one of all is to simply raise the price of alcohol, generally via taxation. Wayland Ellis has pointed that out several times, and it is the one thing that he and the polar-opposite Philip N. Cook can agree upon. The late Mark Kleiman also made a similar argument years ago. Alcohol taxes and prices have been lagging behind inflation for decades in the USA, so therefore the lowest-hanging fruit to make headway against America's growing drinking problem is to raise such taxes. In fact, if set high enough, practically no other alcohol regulations or restrictions are needed at all.
Another promising idea, would be similar to what parts of the Northern Territory of Australia, as well as parts of Western Australia, currently have: something called the Banned Drinker Register (BDR). It is exactly what it sounds like, and targets actual problem drinkers individually only, with no collateral damage to non-problem drinkers. This can also be paired with something like South Dakota's 24/7 Sobriety Program for those convicted of drunk driving, drunk violence, drunk vandalism, or repeated disorderly conduct violations. In addition, problem drinkers can also have themselves voluntarily added to the blacklist for a fixed period of time, much like problem gamblers are currently allowed to do. (Call it "86 Me" or something like that.) Mark Kleiman would certainly have approved of that as well. And aside from the downside of ID checking of all buyers that would be required to enforce the BDR (not radically different from the status quo), it is actually the most libertarian policy that there is. Libertarian purists, of course, would probably only support the South Dakota style 24/7 program and the voluntary blacklist, and that would be fine with Twenty-One Debunked either way.
And of course, let America be America again, and lower the drinking age to 18. If you're old enough to go to war, you're old enough to go to the bar. 'Nuff said.
It's no surprise that during two years of social isolation and social unrest that drugs and/or excessive alcohol use is what adults turn to cope. In fact liquor stores remained essential during lockdowns. Why are we surprised that youth and young adults who often try to model the behavior of their older adult counterparts think that binge/excessive drinking is acceptable?
ReplyDeleteLowering the drinking age is not bound to make things worse, as 18-20 year olds already drink. Sometimes, they tend to do it unsafely because their drinking activities are forced underground (basement of a frat house for example), and not a bar where servers have a social responsibility to cut people off. Imo, both concepts can co-exist: Allow young adults to have safe, regulated legal access to alcohol but encourage moderation and healthy consumption habits for adults of all ages. A minimum age of 21 alone does not cut down on consumption habits anyway. Alcohol in the US is still relatively cheap. If you want people to cut down on consumption, you could start buy slapping higher taxes on certain alcoholic beverages like spirits and reduce the hours of availability that beer and wine can be sold in grocery or convenience stores. If you wanted to be paternalistic, setting quantity limits as to how many bottles of liquor you could purchase at a time. In addition, making alcohol addiction recovery services accessible through insurance or other means could also help.
Yes. Countries that have taken a less ageist and more pragmatic approach to alcohol related problems have seen far better results.
ReplyDeleteAnd that creates a much healthier society for everyone. Punishing young adults for experimentation never ends well and if the US could grasp the concept that fines and incarceration is not always the answer to real or perceived social ills we could get somewhere.
DeleteI think on campus bars should be more common. Drunk driving among young drivers is a major reason why the national age is 21, but in my opinion, if you give students the option to drink on campus it would help to address those concerns but I'm not sure it will ever happen. Young adults aside, the relationship with alcohol among many people is complicated.
DeleteWell-said, both of you. And as well all know now, the 21 drinking age does not really even reduce drunk driving, as Miron and Tetelbaum found that it was merely a mirage all along. Campus bars would be a good idea IMHO. At one time, most colleges had them, and some still do to this day. I remember when visiting SUNY Stony Brook in Long Island once, they had one there, albeit quite overpriced. And with the drinking age of 21, that mostly defeats the purpose of having bars on campus.
DeleteI agree, but the idea is to at least destigmatize the use of alcohol in a public setting on campus. Even if you're 21, most colleges restrict you to your dorm-room, suite/on-campus apartment, and you're not allowed to drink in the lounge or game rooms, nor can you drink in the campus cafeteria even if you're having a meal. Some colleges also prohibit legal age students from drinking if they share a room with a student who is under 21.
DeleteI think a good idea is to start advocating for decriminalizing the posesssion and consumption of alcohol by individuals 18, 19, and 20. Delaware legislators put a bill on the table and I applaud it. Out of all things to give someone a criminal record for (especially a young adult), drinking a beer at 19 should be on the very bottom of the list, if on the list at all.
https://bluedelaware.com/2019/07/03/decriminalization-of-underage-drinking-passes/
In addition to decriminalizing "underage" drinking (and hopefully being able to lower the drinking age altogether) and allowing for campus bars, alcohol education sessions for college freshman should be a must (like they make you attend drugs and sexual assault awareness sessions at freshman orientation). Education, decriminalization, and regulated environments for drinking, = less harm to young adults. The current policies are only harming individuals under 21. Look no further than rush week at a college frat party.
Good for Delaware. Lowering the legal drinking age to 18 throughout the U.S. would be a good public policy decision.
DeleteA legal drinking age of 18 would be a good public policy decision for the United States. Young adults who are 18-20 years old would be allowed to drink responsibly on-premises at off campus bars or off premises. A legal drinking age of 21 is not a good public policy decision for the United States. Raising taxes on alcoholic beverages by a modest amount on alcoholic beverages will decrease negative externalities of excess.
ReplyDeleteI agree, and I think both policies can co-exist well. I just wish we had politicians that didn't look at certain issues with a one track mind. Increasing taxes, modest reduction in hours, increased access to addiction recovery services, and stricter BAC levels for driving for all ages are all policies that can help alcohol related deaths and injuries trend downward while still making room for respecting everyone's personal choices.
DeleteThe highest drunk driving fatalities are not in the 18-20 age group. 21-24 year olds have the highest rates, yet only very few are advocating for increasing the drinking age to 25.
"Young people are the most at-risk for drunk driving. NHTSA data shows that drivers between the ages of 21-24 account for 27% of all fatal alcohol-impaired crashes, followed closely by 25-34 year olds (25%)."
Age bracket % of alcohol-impaired drivers involved in fatal crashes
16 – 20 15%
21 – 24 27%
25 – 34 25%
35 – 44 21%
45 – 54 19%
55 – 64 15%
65 – 74 10%
75+ 7%
https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/drunk-driving/#stats-2022
At best, the legal age of 21 only transferred the problem it was trying to solve by passing it on to another age group.
Very much agreed. Policies which don't infringe on the age of majority of 18 while addressing the actual problems is what is actually needed in this country.
DeleteVery well said. At best, the 21 drinking age delayed the problem to the next age group. Or in the lingua franca of the 2020s, it "flattened the curve" a bit. Which doesn't actually reduce the total area under the curve, it merely drags it out over a longer time.
DeleteBye, bye, troll.
ReplyDeleteI just deleted all of the troll's comments now and all of the threads.
DeletePeople under 21 are protecting and have given their lives overseas for this country.
ReplyDeletePeople under 21 work in trades, prepare your food, take care of your children, and keep your streets clean.
People under 25 serve as police officers, teachers, paramedics, nurses, state legislators, and many other jobs in service to the public
People under 25 are also married, have a college degree, are raising children, and many even care for their parents.
What is your agenda? What are you getting out of making everyone under 21 or 25 seem like brainless idiots? You need to stop trolling or come up with better arguments.
I just deleted all of the troll's comments now and all of the threads.
DeleteWell-said Grant. You can't have it both ways, either 18-24 year olds are adults, or they are not.
ReplyDeleteAgain, Randy, there's the door.
Well for starters, people over 21 don't have to worry about catching a charge over Twisted Tea.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iep3gmwcsQY
For context though, he was caught with Open container on the sidewalk, which as we know in most states, is not allowed.
The Invisible Knapsack of privileges, that I wrote ten years ago: http://21debunked.blogspot.com/2012/03/invisible-knapsack.html
DeleteAnd it's updated version today:
Deletehttps://21debunked.blogspot.com/2022/12/the-invisible-knapsack-updated.html
I don't condone him lying or trying to run, that never ends up good, but I understand why he was nervous.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis is almost turning into a parody.
ReplyDeleteIndeed it is.
DeleteNobody hates Americans more than other Americans. We are our own worst enemy.
DeleteSo true, Anthony. Unfortunately.
DeleteI will not engage with the troll. I hereby quote the 1970s band "The Records":
ReplyDeleteI don't wanna argue
There's nothing to say
Just get me out of your starry eyes
And be on your way
No joke, but I think Randy is suffering from this:
ReplyDeletehttps://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22423-ephebiphobia#:~:text=What%20is%20ephebiphobia%3F,phobos%2C%E2%80%9D%20which%20means%20fear.
Sure sounds like it.
DeleteThis conversation is hereby shut down. All of the comments made by the troll, and all threads on which he commented, have been permanently deleted. Any further trolling will be summarily deleted as well.
ReplyDeleteCommenting is now disabled for this post.
ReplyDelete